Are Micro-Reactors Finally Here? The Rise of Deep Fission and Its Micro-Reactor Revolution

Craig: deepfission, a nuclear startup, plans to deploy underground microreactors to provide power for data centers. so they're planning on burying these nukes. i call them nukes, but nuclear reactors, and providing power for data centers. we've talked about this a fair bit. what do you think about deepfision solution?

Jon: i think it's cool, because the way that they're like, what their thought process through this. right? so what they're doing is to go a little bit more into details, they're codeveloping, two gigawatts of nuclear energy, and these are supposed to be operational by twenty twenty nine, which is interesting. but their approach involves placing small modular reactors in boreholes, so underground, approximately one mile deep. so that's pretty deep. why they're doing that is because they're trying to leverage the natural, geological advantages for enhanced safety and cost effectiveness. and what i mean by that is that the technology uses what's called mature pressurized water reactor designs, which is the most common type of nuclear reactor worldwide. so by placing these reactors deep underground, they're seeking to eliminate the need for large pressure vessels and containment structures, which are typically required for surface reactors. so the cool thing about this, right, because, like, having all of these containment structures and pressure vegetable, pressure vegetables, pressure vessels, that increases the cost. so by doing this, they're hoping that they could significantly reduce the cost while maintaining high safety standards. so, it's really interesting. they're claiming that they can deliver zero carbon continuous power at just five to seven cents per kilowatt hour, which is interesting. what do you think about that, that claim, craig? you think they can do it?

Craig: i don't know. we'll have to see. i they won't be able to do it right away. i mean, that they'll do it when they have a whole bunch of these up and running, but the idea is very cool. each one of these reactors can generate up to twenty megawatts of power, operates autonomously, and can run, for a decade without refueling. ten reactors can fit in a quarter acre producing a hundred and fifty megawatts of power. like you mentioned, the five to seven cents per kilowatt is their range they expect to be operational in twenty twenty nine. were these reactors running for data centers?

Jon: yeah. exactly. so they're partnered with endeavor energy. and so, yeah, they're again, like you said, it's a major shift in how data centers supporting ai applications are gonna approach their energy needs. it's just this goes along with what we've been talking about with microsoft and all these other big companies looking for nuclear power. right?

Craig: yeah. and what the air alberta's doing with natural gas energy as an alternative to bridge the gap at a minimum yeah. it's really interesting. so, you know, deepvisions' microactors are designed for deep borehole placement, enhancing, safety, and reducing surface footprint. they're thirty inch boreholes, like you said, that drill a mile deep. so they're not these things aren't huge.

Jon: no. what do you think about their use for home? because you're all about backyard nuclear reactors. think? do you think that there's viability here?

Craig: i think there is viability here. i think what we're gonna see is we're gonna see companies like we talked about, big ai data center companies going this route first because they can foot the bill and take the risk. and then once they see and can prove the cheap energy costs, you're gonna start to see one, i believe it'll happen with new subdivisions first saying, alright. let's put we're building new subdivision. we're gonna bring a thousand, ten thousand homes into here. you know, thinking about fifteen minute cities, thinking about being self sustained, thinking about all these things, you know, you can build power out like this and say, alright. how many gigawatts do we need to maintain the subdivision? and let's build local power. and with each of these being twenty megawatts, like, big batteries that if one goes down and the other ones keep going, you can really build redundancy in the system. i like the idea. yeah. i don't know enough about this particular system, about the waste, and how it handles that, where we've seen some of that with the molten thorium salt reactors and yeah. some of the other stuff we talked about. so i'm not a hundred percent sure where it fits on that. but we know that ai and the data centers are driving power consumption like crazy, and we all want our ai. we all want our video games. we all want our compute to do all the work we wanna do. we all wanna work from home. so we need our internet. so we need these things to run, and this like, i honestly been saying this for a while. nuclear is really the only proven clean solution that gives, consistent energy no matter what. so, it's great to have these other ones, power and wind and whatnot. i think they've got a long way to go, especially if we can get that ninety percent, efficiency solar cells that we were talking about before. yeah. these look great. i like this concept because i think nuclear is the future, and we're starting to see some people starting to think about that. the problem is that in people's mind, nuclear is very dangerous. yeah. so how many people died, at three mile island for the meltdown?

Jon: i don't know.

Craig: oh, let me tell you. zero.

Jon: oh, i didn't know that. but let's see that at chernobyl, which is what i think is

Craig: another discussion. that's the that's a you know, the numbers you think of people who died at chernobyl are not at all what you think they are.

Jon: oh, interesting.

Craig: and the people at three mile island, bunch of them got exposed to the equivalent level of radiation that you would receive, if you're getting an x-ray at the doctor's office.

Jon: so then why, like, is there someone about that?

Craig: same time it happened, we got that movie, china syndrome. it? what about that?

Jon: is it

Craig: i don't know if that's the name of it. but the big meltdown movie that scared everybody that so when it happened, everyone's fair, and we gotta have all this media. it's great. like, i mean, we need to be better. we need to be safer. i like the new solutions are much better or safer where it doesn't have to be under pressure. it doesn't have so if things go offline, there's no danger of things overheating or whatever. things just take care of themselves. that is fantastic. and the newer ones that eat their own output, so the stuff that comes out just gets put back at it as input, so we don't have all this extra waste. and it's been proven. so we really need to start moving in this direction. if this particular microreactors are the right design or the ones from radiant that fit on the back of a transport truck or any other ones that we've talked about along the way. i'm interested. i believe this is the future the question is, can at what point do citi start adopting this and say, alright. let's build out. we want a power. we want this. we want that. it's an extra whatever, investments, x billion or whatever for each of these reactors. mhmm. let's go. i imagine it's not billions for each of these, but it could be.

Jon: yeah. yeah. i think the biggest hurdle, though, that that we're facing is, is going to be, regulatory problems. right?

Craig: well, that's the problem. they they all announced doing this, and then they all got shut down by regulatory operations. and when i say doing this, google and openai and people were announcing their, microsoft that was doing nuclear. but the one i know that is still going ahead that i know of is the microsoft one where they're leveraging the infrastructure of the three mile island project.

Jon: okay. yeah. so yeah.

Craig: because that's a completely different thing and then they're already existing. i think they have a different regulator than, you know, we're implementing a new nuclear on a different location, and that's a whole different, versus one that already existed. it's up and operational.

Jon: yeah.

Craig: so i this is the problem, and that's why the problem is with nuclear has always been regulatory, and the government in north america changes every few years. and what the democrats like and what the republicans like or what have you are different things, so you don't wanna invest billions into building a nuclear power plant only to have the next government come into play and say, oh, we're not doing that anymore. yeah. we're gonna only go oil, or we're only gonna do this or whatever. you know? i'm not picking aside. i'm just saying from an investment point of view, it's highly risky. and that's why when bill gates was originally talking about this years ago, he was talking about doing it in china, and that's why i think we're seeing major investments in that thorium salt, thorium molten salt reactor in china. so there's a lot of this stuff, a lot of nuclear happening, and i think more and more governments are realizing that long term sustainable nuclear is one of the only things that make sense.

Jon: yeah. you

Craig: know, people can argue with me, and they have better, other i'm hoping hydrogen pulls through and can power a whole bunch of stuff so i don't have to have a nuclear reactor in my car. but hey. and let's talk about you know? it's funny. i don't wanna get into, anything untoward, but what were your thoughts and on the drones that were flying over everywhere?

Jon: what do you mean?

Craig: in, new jersey and in the states, like, the the sedan sized drones that were flying over are just hovering in the air for hours that people reported on.

Jon: oh, you know what? i totally missed that. i didn't even know that. but

Craig: oh my god. really? yeah. it was going on for weeks. the president we're talking about is saying that the government needs to tell us what's going on. i immediately thought that these are hydrogen powered drones that you know, we talked about the range and how many hours they can stay afloat and all that kind of stuff, and i'm like, wow. yeah. you really need to take i don't know. i have no idea how you missed that. i just wanted to figure out what you thought they were powered from.

Jon: all i know is that, i, is that, we're so highly regulated. china's way ahead of us when it comes to drone and delivery technology.

Craig: the rest of the world is. i saw a really good interview with, mark andreessen talking specifically about that because we have so many regulations about range and line of sight and pilot's license that our drone manufacturers can't put in stuff to the products that the rest of the world can do. so they're jumping leaps and far, bounds ahead of us. so we'll have to see whether that changes over time. but, you know, we live in a society where people are crazy sometimes, and maybe it's a good idea to require a pilot's license if your drone has been going online of sight. but, you know, that stifles innovation, but, honestly, it stops a sky from being full of drones all the time.

Jon: it does. yeah. yeah.

Craig: so, you know, with six one i i can see both sides of that particular argument, but definitely, you're gonna have to read up about the drawings. yeah. i will. yeah. i'm curious to see, if any information does eventually come out about what was happening.

Jon: yeah. i'm curious to see that for sure.