Optimism or Fear: The First Nuclear Fusion Reactor and Its Implications

Craig: today, we're shining a light on groundbreaking development that has a potential to change how we think about energy. what if we could harness the same process that powers the sun providing us with boundless carbon free energy? sounds like a dream. well, it might be closer to reality than we think with the advent of the first nuclear fusion reactor. so let's unpack this, john. what's going on here?

Jon: yeah. so i don't know if it's the first one, but, i i get that they're trying to claim that, but, obviously, we've covered other fusion nuclear power plants. right? this might be the first one that's actually fully built. but yeah. so commonwealth fusion systems, which is a spin off of mit, they've announced plans to build the world's first commercial nuclear fusion power plant in virginia. the plant aims to generate four hundred megawatts of steady fusion power and connect to the state's electrical grid by the early twenty thirties, which i think might make it the first one to be built. i don't know. i'll have to look back. i tried to do it in enough time. so, cfs plant will use we've covered this, the tokamak reactor, which is a donut shaped reactor, to create the extreme conditions for necessary for fusion reactions. now for those of you, again, who haven't listened to any of our other podcasts, current nuclear power plants use fission, which means they split apart atoms. or whatever the the the, the particle is, few fusion reactions fuse them together. so they force them together, which is what the sun does. so, this thing the temperatures that it reaches is over a hundred and eighty million degrees fahrenheit and a huge immense pressure. so, fusion promises to generate energy by combining atoms rather than splitting them and potentially offering a safer and more sustainable power source. so this is what they're calling the holy grail, and, apparently, their timeline is ambitious compared to other fusion projects like iter, which we covered before. they face delays and now expected to achieve their first plasma around twenty twenty eight. so they might be first, but who knows? but still cool. we've got something in north america, at least in the us, that is trying to get the first the, to the finish line. what do you think?

Craig: well, i'm glad, they're all doing it because yeah. again, we benefit from these things as long as they do them in a safe and stable environment. but we have to be cautiously optimistic because there's been so many lies or, promises that just didn't work out, you know, that it always seems to be fifteen years away in fusion, you know, because things aren't working. we haven't got the right mixture of, magnetic containment pressure and temperature that makes it all work properly. so we'll have to see. you know? maintaining the stable fusion process and converting the results into practical use are the two major hurdles. just a ball of isotopes of hydrogen that's at a temperature hotter than the center of the sun. and when you make something that hot, it wants to fly apart. so, you know, you've gotta figure out how to do that. and, you know, i'm concerned that we're going to the competition is gonna lead to some safety potential issues that we don't really, want. but, hopefully, you know, people aren't that, in a rush, and their lives are at stake here too, so they wouldn't wanna destroy it.

Jon: yeah.

Craig: so i love the promise, but it comes with great concern as the first nuclear free fusion reactors gain traction. reactions vary widely. how do we reconcile optimism and its potential with fears surrounding safety and environmental impact? for many, the spectrum nuclear energy provokes anxiety, but is essential to have an open conversation about the risks involved alongside with the transformative potential of fusion. educating the public is crucial. we all need a share in this dialogue, and we can as we stand on the cusp of this new energy era. so they're saying this could power, hundred and fifty thousand doll a hundred and fifty thousand homes. is one plan. yeah. definitely, ideally.

Jon: yeah. so yeah. and and i know you talk about regulations and stuff, but, i did a comparison between what would happen if a fusion reactor failed versus a fission reactor. so fusion reaction would essentially stop due to loss of containment conditions. so there might be a localized explosion from the release of the stored magnetic energy. there could be potential hydrogen explosions if hot materials contact water. there could be some radioactive materials that could be released, but nothing like a fission reactor meltdown. so, obviously, it would be catastrophic and really bad, but not as bad as, as chernobyl or three mile island or things like that.

Craig: yeah. and, again, we talked about three mile island last week or the week before. and i

Jon: talked about a couple things.

Craig: there's a lot of misinformation and stuff around it because it happened around the time of that, movie that came out.

Jon: yeah. i can't remember the yeah. and we couldn't remember the name of the movie back then either. so

Craig: yeah. so, anyway, they like, their two deaths happened. it was only two. and yeah. i guess not the biggest, thing in history. i'm saying we have to be cautious, but i think there's a lot of erroneous fear around what happened and how many people died related to these things, and that modern ones are a lot more efficient. they don't need to be pressurized. they don't need to be this. they're less dangerous. so if things go offline, they they just they're okay. but, yeah, it's it is the future fusion, ideally, over fission. yeah. but nuclear all unlimited clean energy. and that's the other thing is once you start these up, they just keep going. right?

Jon: yeah. just like the sun. the sun keeps going. yeah.

Craig: so this is the dream. and do you think this company is gonna pull it off?

Jon: i don't know. i don't i don't trust any of them based on everything that we've covered. i have hope. like, obviously, i hope that they're successful. i hope that they that they reach their milestones in in the timeline that they're looking to do. i hope that they do this because like you said, this just benefits everyone in the long run. it benefits. it gives power. it's limitless power, essentially, because, it is an well, it's an abundance of power because, essentially, guys, we are creating mini suns these, in these reactions. that's what we're doing, and the sun has immense power. so, i hope. i hope they do, but like you and i have covered, there's there's been multiple delays in other ones that we've covered. but and this is new technology, so there's still a lot of hurdles that need to be overcome. they like, the maintaining plasma stability is difficult. developing materials that can withstand extreme conditions is difficult. yeah. it's there's a lot. there's a lot of crucial a lot of things need to go right in order for them to achieve their timeline, if that makes sense.

Craig: absolutely. i mean, i'm excited about this because, you know, once we start hitting, we can actually start doing a hundred percent green energy. that is fantastic. and the world can really move forward in all sorts of ways we never thought of before.

Jon: yeah.

Craig: you know? when we have finally, we have to power these ai data centers, and we have to get our grids up this power, and we have to do a lot of things. but when we have these plants and we can build them, when we say, alright. well, now what can we power in a city that we have never done before?

Jon: yeah.

Craig: and when you start thinking of that like that, you know, you talk about charging, tesla charging and whatever, the vehicle charging on the road as you drive. we've talked about that before. we talked about a bunch of things where you say, you start implementing all these things that, you know, would have been possible before. yeah. and the price of energy drops to next to nothing. and it really changes the game from, you know, people just being able to heat their homes and surviving and whatnot. but what happens to stuff like bitcoin when, you know, energy is, the key factor when you're talking about mining?

Jon: well, bitcoin is still gonna be the price it is because there's a limited number of bitcoins, i think.

Craig: yeah. it's just that the mining of these coins become a lot, easier and cheaper when energy is cheap to nothing. so it's i look forward to energy dropping to almost nothing because it'll change our lives significantly. i just don't know how long that'll be. is that fifty or a hundred years?

Jon: government and the corporations are gonna allow energy to drop to barely nothing?

Craig: well, i think the problem is it there are you just change. the economics change. right? they're trying to move us to electricity from gas. they don't realize, the tax implications yeah. for the government when they lose the gas taxes that they bring in. but what'll happen is we'll say, okay. well, that's fine. but the thing might be free, but the cost to use the filling station's cost or this cost or the technology to put in a tank cost or like, there's a lot of things. like, when there's a lot of ways to make money in that chain of energy, but just saying the actual energy itself,

Jon: if you

Craig: can get a hold of it, it's free

Jon: yeah.

Craig: or next to nothing. like, it's never gonna be free because these plants are billions of dollars and what have you. but if we can take it from thousands of dollars or, you know, whatever it is we're paying, per kilowatt hour now down to nothing, like, down to fractions and fractions of a cent so that yeah. your bills go from, three or four hundred bucks a month to five bucks. i mean, that's a game changer. right?

Jon: yeah. and let's hope that actually happens.

Craig: yeah. so as we reflect on the remarkable

Jon: i'm so pessimistic. sorry.

Craig: i know. i'm pessimistic too, but, you know, i like to reflect on the remarkable capabilities of nuclear fusion technology. we must consider what kind of world do we wanna build with it, a future illuminated by sustainable generated energy is within our reach, but getting their calls for careful navigation of its challenges, public understanding, and the collective commitment. so as we close this episode, i invite you to ponder this. in the face of such groundbreaking achievements or advancements, how can we ensure that the evolution of energy serves both humanity and our planet?